– So, I’m going to talk about
my experiences over the last seven years since I
decided to change my mind and I just have to correct
one thing about, that Jeff got wrong in his lecture this morning. The golden era of ketone
research starts with a paper by Noakes, Koeslag and Sloan in 1980. (laughter) And here it is. (laughter) The famous forgotten study
post exercise ketosis, and this happened at a
time when we were heavily involved in carbohydrate loading and, but the way we would
load for marathons is we would do three days of
carbohydrate depletion where you wouldn’t need carbohydrates
and you’d run as far as you could and then for three
days you’d carbohydrate load. And my friend Johan Koeslag came to me and he said, “I’m really
interested in ketosis ’cause it’s never been studied.” So I said, “Well my wife
tells me, I smell terrible in the carbohydrate depletion
phase of this, maybe there’s something to do with
carbohydrates and ketones, and if you stop eating
carbohydrates you get ketotic.” So we did some experiments and the (mumbles) can move? Sorry, am I pointing at that, there we go. So I’m very proud because
I was one of the subjects and what we did was, for a day,
sorry, we would carbohydrate load, or we would do a
low carbohydrate diet. There’s the low carbohydrate
diet and we would run for two hours on a treadmill, and then
we got this fabulous ketosis which we would then reverse if we ate carbohydrates,
that was the next study. And when we had no exercise
we didn’t become ketotic and we ate lots of carbohydrates
and ran we didn’t become ketotic obviously everyone
knows, but in those days we didn’t know actually, this was
the first study of ketosis, post exercise ketosis since the 1930s. But what was really interesting
was to find out why I was not going to be so
healthy in due course. Because, when we looked
at the insulin levels and glucose levels, and
remember there were two of us, so it was me and my friend. What we noticed was that on the, here free fatty acids you’d expect they go up when you’re on the low
carbohydrate diet etcetera. But look at this glucose
response, on the high carbohydrate diet, we showed an abnormal
response, which I didn’t, no one noticed that, but
glucose shouldn’t shoot up like that on a high carbohydrate diet. On the low carbohydrate diet it was bad for the first hour but then it improved. But look at the insulins. This is on the low carbohydrate,
insulin is reasonably low. When we didn’t do any
exercise, look at it. This person is profoundly
insulin resistant, and we didn’t know what it was. So I was profoundly insulin
resistant at the age of 28, despite being lean and running
marathons and running 140 kilometers a week, about
70-80 miles a week. I was profoundly insulin
resistant, look at this, after a day of no exercise and no food, we didn’t eat that day, look at this. I’m startled by instance
that are way too high. Today it’s much lower because
I don’t eat carbohydrates. So I was, I was destined
to develop type 2 diabetes, but no one knew and no one picked it up. So I use that as a good example
and one thing, if you want to do research, you know,
people need to watch the glucose response to exercise in
people insulin resistant and I think that’s an
early detector for insulin resistance, it is you should
monitor always glucose after the end of a maximum test, exercise test. It should be normal, if it’s
not, I suspect you’re going to have some insulin resistance,
just a hypothesis. So what happened next to
me, next was as I said Tim Noakes and friend have instant
resistance hypertensive anemia despite youth
and marathon training. It improved on the high fat
diet, they must develop Type 2 diabetes with time if they
continue eating a high carbohydrate diet, so I
continue to eat the high carbohydrate diet for 33 years. And the consequence was obvious. So now we just go a little
bit forward, next year. This is the picture I
graduated with a doctorate in medicine and that’s my
mother and my father. My father’s just been
diagnosed with Type 2 diabetes and he’s put on a high carbohydrate diet and ten years later he’s
dead from the disease. And I watched him die
and there’s nothing worse than dying from Type 2 diabetes. He had strokes when he died,
he could not speak to me. He lost both his legs and this
was a wonderful wonderful man a very powerful, charismatic
person and absolutely the icon in my country, and I couldn’t help him. And so I carry that burden
but I could not help him and much of what I do is
because I’m inspired by what he gave to me and the fact that I couldn’t pay back to him. So now, it turns out that
I discover I’ve got Type 2 diabetes about seven years
ago and I realized I got 10 years, 10 years or else
I’m gonna be his position and now seven years down
the line I’m glad to report that my diabetes is in remission or in reversal whatever you choose. And so I’ve been able to do
it, it took me seven years of a very low carbohydrate diet to do it but I’m thankful to those
people who put me on the right path and the people
who put me on the right path were these guys, Eric Westman,
Steve Finney and Jeff Volek. And the story is, one
day, the day our scent of waterlogged to be published
and send it to the editors. I hadn’t been running much and
my brain told me you must get up tomorrow morning and you
must run and you must not stop running for the rest of your life. So I got up, and I ran
and had a terrible run. And I got a tiny hill outside
my house and when I reached the top of the hill which is
tiny I thought I was at top of the summit of Mount
Everest, I felt so terrible. So I went back and I opened
my emails and there was an advert for this book, I mean
how was how probable is that to happen, I was at the moment
I needed help, the book was being advertised and I was so
angry, I was so angry when I read it because I said this
guy Atkins he’s a crook and a thief, and everything. And these three people have
sold out to him and they are good scientists and that’s
a disgrace, I was saying, I got in the car and drove
to the local bookshop and I had the last copy of
the book and I picked it up and in my anger tore it open
and started reading it like this and after two hours, I
said oh my gosh I got it all wrong, I said for 33 years
I’ve been completely wrong. And I said that’s it, no
more carbohydrates ever. And I had my last low low
carbohydrates that day and converted to the diet immediately. And the response from me was
spectacular and as I said it’s seven years and my
diabetes is in remission. But this book was and is an
astonishing book, I think that’s the best diet book I’ve ever
read and he describes instant resistance in great detail and
all the symptoms you develop and it’s a book that
really one needs to read. So when I say they saved
my life they did because 10 years later if I hadn’t read
this book, I would be on insulin, I’d be weighing 240,
250 kilograms, I wouldn’t be able to do exercise and
my brain would have gone and other things would have gone. So that’s thank you
guys, you’re the start of whatever else I might have
achieved, I owe it to you. (applause) So anyway, so I changed my
diet and I knew there’d be a backlash and this book is the
second edition of this book and in the interim, the first
edition didn’t do so well so they say why don’t you
spice it up a bit so I said. “Yeah I can write about
the diet, you see.” So here it has high low
carbohydrate high protein diet will improve your life, that was
the addition to the book and immediately it’s, it
opened up a can of worms and the cardiologist went for me immediately, because I said you may be statins on such a good idea,
so they targeted me first. And then, then I wrote this
article because people were writing to me and they were
saying, prof, if my diabetes is in remission or whatever and
I took 127 of the stories and I analyzed them, and I
said, listen this is just anecdotes but they’re important,
had four people described they’d reverse they Type
2 diabetes this is 2013 and I thought my gosh that’s
really important wouldn’t my profession love it to be
told that you can reverse Type 2 diabetes, and there
was one person one person lost 260 pounds in seven months. Just by chance, it’s not,
the first week he lost three kilogram, one week he lost
12 pounds in one week. I mean, I don’t know
how it happened, anyway. And I thought they would love it. Do you know what, my university
tried to get this paper retracted because I didn’t
have ethical approval to write these things about
these people because I didn’t ask each of them for ethical permission to, to
include their information. And I know, I never said it
was hard science, I said a randomized clinic
controlled clinical trial is urgently required to disprove
the hypothesis that the LCH of eating plan can reverse
cases of Type 2 diabetes, metabolic syndrome, and
hypertension without formal therapy. And now fortunately we had
the verde health study, but that’s all I was saying and they wanted to to stop the article. The next thing we did was we
wrote this book and this is a really interesting guide study
because this guy is a long distance runner, and he and a friend were running the length of the Wall of China. And they got into Mongolia
and they ran out of food and they were really struggling
and they spoke to the Mongolians and this the
Mongolian said there’s only one way you’re going to finish
this, you eat pork fat, that’s all, pork fat from now
till the end and you’ll be fine, so they ate pork fat
and everything was fantastic. (laughter) So they came back and they
said we should write a book to promote real, the real foods,
a high fat diet for athletes. And it took us five weeks,
now normally takes me years to write a book, we write this
book in five weeks and we published it and it just went
ballistic in South Africa and it sold many many copies
and completely changed the nature of the dietary
debate in South Africa. Now the public were asking, they were all talking about this low fat
low low carbohydrate diet and we call it the Banting
Diet in South Africa. And unfortunately the dietitians
responded in a negative way, they didn’t say embrace
it, they said no it’s all wrong, you’re going to
die if you eat the diet. And the public didn’t believe them because the public was benefiting so much. And so we call it the Banting diet. Sorry, this is all it said,
this is the the genius of this book is this table the green
foods, these are the green list of foods and that’s it,
that’s the genius of the book as long as you eat these
foods you’ll live forever. So and that’s what we didn’t
promise, but that’s what we said and that’s so easy if
you’ve got your green list you can, can do it and then the
book was named after that, we call the diet the Banting
Diet after Mr. Banting, who very kindly sent me these
two pictures of himself. (laughter) And this is his, before the
diet, and that’s after the diet and he lost about 40 pounds,
as you can see and then wrote this book which became very
popular, so it was really interesting in South Africa,
the night before the book went to the publishers, one of
the authors, he changed LCHF and he just put Banting,
and that really gave it legs because the Banting name
now meant something, and if you talked in South Africa, we don’t talk LCHF,
it’s the Banting Guide. Okay so now what happens,
so what happens is I now go and speak to parliament and
there’s a picture of me handing the Real Meal Revolution to
the speaker of parliament. And my university thinks this
is the worst thing that’s ever happened to the university
in its history, in its 100 year history to have
Noakes promoting a diet to the Parliament, and the four
professors decide to write this letter and they send it to the Cape Times, so I wake up one morning
warned that this letter is going to appear in the
Cape Times, which is our major newspaper in the Cape
Town, on the Monday morning. And this is what it says. “This has never happened
before in the history of my university, it is therefore
a serious concern that Professor Timothy Noakes,
a colleague respected for his research in sport
science, is aggressively promoting the diet as a revolution.” I’m not promoting the diet. I wrote a book that South
Africans promoted the book for me, I did not need to promote it. “Making outrageous unproven claims about disease prevention.” I did not make any claims,
all I said what these people reported that they had
reversed their Type 2 diabetes or hypertension on the
diet, I made no claim, I said what they said. “Maligning the integrity
and credibility of peers who criticize his diet for being
evidence deficient and not conforming to the tenets of
good and responsible science.” I never said that, they
were talking like that about me, I never once criticized a
colleague publicly, for that. And then “this goes against
the University of Cape Town’s commitment to academic freedom as a prerequisite to
fostering responsible and respectful intellectual
debate and free inquiry.” Now that is George Orwellian speech. (laughter) Yeah, I don’t need to explain what I mean. They were shutting down freedom of speech. And it got worse. “The UCD Faculty of Health
Sciences the leading research institute in
Africa has a reputation for research excellent to uphold.” Which I’d contributed to that, by the way. “Above all our research must
be socially responsible. We have therefore taken the
unusual step of distancing ourselves from the
proponents of this diet”. Now that has never
happened to anyone at that university in its long history. So why would they choose me? Now I didn’t understand at
the time that this is called mobbing, academic mobbing. And this article describes
academic mobbing, which is a horrendous event. This lady committed
suicide with her husband when she was mobbed. She’s from a Canadian university. She could not take it,
the pressure of mobbing. I could take it because
I was no longer in the university, I was retired. But this is how they described mobbing. And this is this is what it feels like, if you’re ever mobbed. An impassioned collective
campaign by co-workers to exclude, punish and humiliate a targeted
worker, initiated most often by a person in position of
power, of influence, it was started by my Dean of
the Faculty of Medicine. Mobbing is a desperate urge
to crush and eliminate the target, the urge traveled through
the workplace like a virus infecting one person after another. The target comes to be viewed
as absolutely abhorrent with no redeeming qualities outside
the circle of acceptance and respectability,
deserving only of contempt. As the campaign proceeds
steadily larger range of hostile ploys and communications comes
to be seen as legitimate. And that’s what happened to me. Anything they did after
that was was justified, it didn’t matter how humiliating
it was whatever they did. And you know that it’s a
frightening book, when you read it, article, when you read it,
but to be exposed to this is terrible and the worst
thing is the people who are closest to you have to
prove to the mob that they have distanced
themselves, most from you. So the people I’ve helped the most were the ones who were
the most horrid to me. And just so just think of that. I survived because of my wife
and what the target of the mobbing is, is firstly they
isolate you, I was isolated completely from my university
and my faculty, including the sports science institute,
which I’d helped build because they didn’t support me either. I had one person supporting me
directly and it was my wife. And the focus is to break you
from your wife because then you’re finished and if we had
broken I probably would have committed suicide, but we
were too strong for them. And she is the reason that
I survived and we fought it, we decided we’re going to
fight this thing whatever happens and we’re going to
come out on top in the end. And fortunately that’s what happened. So then what happened was, I
get charged for unprofessional conduct and then in the
middle of my testimony, this is what the newspaper said. So I said today has great
value etcetera in science. So, it all circulates on my
Twitter account and so if you don’t follow me you might want
to know why do I use Twitter and why do I think it’s such
an important social media. And firstly, I use it
for information sharing. It is the easiest and best
way to share information. My own personal education I
probably photocopy or print out three or five new articles
a day, from what I pick up and I mean it’s just it’s
overwhelming all of the information and that’s one of
the problem because there’s so much information on this
diet, coming through, that it’s difficult to know what you
should be talking about. And then I also use it, and I’m
for challenging conventional dietary guidelines, I like to
promote the science supporting the medical benefits of the
low carbohydrate Banting lifestyle and to highlight
the failings of the current pharmacological model of
chronic disease management. So that’s that’s why I’m on Twitter. So what happened was
that on February 3, 2014, Pippa Leenstra tweeted this. And so she’s a mother, she,
her husband has read The Real Meal Revolution and is doing
a low carb diet and she asked, “Is low carb high fat eating
okay for breastfeeding moms worried about all the dairy and cauliflower wind for babies”, Question mark, question mark. And she writes to two
people, not me and it’s not Dr. Noakes its professor and
on my Twitter handle it does not say I’m a medical doctor,
it says I’m a scientist. And she asked a question
of two of, it’s this plural that critically important mums and babies, that’s critical to the whole defense. And so here’s my answer. Baby doesn’t eat the
dairy and cauliflower. That’s a statement of fact
just very healthy high fat breast milk so I’m promoting
breastfeeding and then I make the error and these seven
words are the problem. Key is to ween, I could even, know how to spell weening, baby onto LCHF. And that was a seven word
tweet that became the most expensive tweet in the
history of tweet-dom. (laughter) So said, within nine hours,
this lady, who happens to be the head of the Association
For Dietitians in South Africa, complains to the
health professional Councils, I’m registered with the
health professional council because I’m a doctor. And so she writes to them
and she says, “To whom it may concern I would like to file
a complaint against Noakes. He is giving incorrect
medical blah blah on Twitter, that is not evidence based. I have atest the tweet where
Professor Noakes advise breastfeeding mother to wean
her baby onto low carbohydrate high fat diet, I urge the
HPCSA to please take urgent actions against this type of
misconduct as Professor Noakes is a celebrity and they don’t,
the public doesn’t have the knowledge to understand
that the information he is advocating is not evidence based. It’s dangerous to give this
advice, for instance, for infant and could potentially
be life threatening. I await your response.” So a few days later I receive
a letter from the health professional council saying
this is the complaint and you have to defend it, so I laugh
because she didn’t give any evidence, there’s no evidence
here about what I said was dangerous, where’s the evidence? You can’t make a charge
without providing evidence and I wrote a long letter and I
thought it would be the end of it, but then I began
to realize things were taking off behind the scenes. So eventually, I get charged
and this is the charge the biomedical ethical issue, I
acted disgracefully because I abused the doctor patient
relationship by offering medical advice on social media to a
patient and her infant without first examining the healthy infant. So that’s the charge. And also that the medical
advice I preferred was not only wrong, it was unconventional
not evidence based, but it is also dangerous, even
there were there was never any evidence or claim of harm. So the problem that they faced
was that, this is the way they used a circular
argument providing medical information on Twitter
represents disgraceful conduct because it’s not possible
to examine the patient on Twitter, but if it’s not possible to examine the patient on Twitter
then it’s not possible to have a doctor patient
relationship on Twitter. (laughter) And the argument went round and round and round as I’ll show. So four years later, during
the appeal which we had earlier this year, the
HBCSA finally dropped any pretense that a doctor
patient relationship existed. They realized they’d lost that
case, so what did they say, they now argue that the
weaning advice was dangerous to millions and billions
of Twitter followers. And so now he’s been charged
with killing millions of people and giving them the
wrong advice on Twitter. (laughter) So what next happens is
it so when you charged, it goes to a preliminary committee and these geniuses were the
guys who are going to decide whether they should charge me or not. Now, what they’re meant to
do, is that they collect the information and then they
send, they’ve got all this information they send it to
me, I respond, and then they call me and I’m must present to them. I was never given that, and
that is the South African Constitution says that has to happen. This lady is the Head
of Ethics at one of the major South African universities. She broke all ethical rules
for a number of things that she did, but she did not give me the right to hear the charge
they made against me which is against the
Constitution of South Africa. Then they started, this guy,
who I’ve known since I was this high, he decides he is going
to make sure I get charged and he’s gonna sort out all the
expert witnesses, now that’s not his job, he must just
decide whether to charge me or not, so anyway the question
was what did they know about Twitter, and the answer was nothing. None of them had ever had
any interest in Twitter. And so that was. So anyway, they then decided
on the basis of me not being allowed to defend
myself that they were going to charge me and the charge went forward. So here are the problems that they faced. The first one is I
answered a wee question. And the thing about a wee
question is, which means I was providing general medical
information, not medical advice, I’m just giving
medical information. For example, medical
information, if you got up and asked me doc, Professor
Noakes, is it right for runners to stretch before they go
training in the mornings. That’s medical information,
it’s not medical advice. If I lost the case, none of
you would ever be able to answer that question in public again. Because you would be giving
so-called medical advice not medical information and
you’d have to examine every patient before you gave that advice. Yeah yeah. And hence that could not be a
doctor patient relationship. There was no doctor patient relationship, we proved that in many ways. So here was the opinion of
a South African, who was President of the South
African Medical Association, he made a very very obvious point. Today, all medical advice
artists are ubiquitous all across the globe by both print
and electronic media. But it’s never been suggested that Dr. Oz has a doctor patient
relationship with his hearers (applause) Et cetera, now see if I’d
lost the case, poor old Dr. Oz could not appear anymore, technically, at least in South Africa. And you would not be able
to give a public lecture and you wouldn’t be able to
write a book because that would be giving medical
advice and the only way you could do it, you’d have to
examine everyone who reads your book and then you can
give them the advice. (laughter) So why was I treated differently? And is it to set an historical
precedent and I don’t know. All I can tell you is
that industry was strongly involved in the case against me. And you can probably guess
which industries they were. So there was no Dr Price,
the information I provided is entirely compatible with the
South African and international guidelines for complementary
feeding, weaning of children. This is astonishing, what I said was absolutely gold standard, right advice. So let’s look at that. Here’s complementary feeding,
a critical window, this is in the South African Medical
Journal written by all the top experts in South Africa
and what do they say. Provide a variety of foods,
meat, poultry, fish and eggs should be eaten daily
or as often as possible. That’s that’s what I said. So then we go on the Association
For Dietitians of South Africa, which was also part
of the charge against me, what are their guidelines? Foods from animals should be
eaten daily or as often as possible to meet protein and iron needs. Okay so, and then the best was this lady, because she was the expert
witness for the prosecution. They used all her evidence
to charge me and the best moments, I may introduce Rocky
Ramdass to you in a second or two, and say when she came
to give the expert witness, by the way, Rocky, well I’ll show you now. But we just had such a
fabulous relationship. He once cross-examined me
and I was in five minutes I couldn’t speak anymore, but
she came up and so he asked her, so Professor Foster
what’s your training. Now I have a BSE in home economics
and an PhD in physiology. So why does that qualify
you as a dietitian. Have you ever treated anyone
with diet for dieting? No no no, etcetera. Got worse than that because
you also gave evidence on ethics is that what training
you have ethics, nothing. Have you ever research a
low carbohydrate diet, no. Have you ever prescribed
the diet for anyone, no. So he said well what are
you doing here, then. (laughter) There was the first five
minutes and she’d never been cross-examined in her life
by any student or anyone. And it was, she said things to me afterwards which I can’t even repeat. (laughter) So what did she say, from six
months of age give your child meat chicken fish or eggs
everyday or as often as possible. So she didn’t know what her
guidelines were, either. Okay, so there we go,
there’s Professor Foster. And this is this is our
guidelines, meat, poultry, game all eggs and offer all
seafood and they’re all the vegetables, that’s it, that’s
the Real Me Revolution diet for weaning of children. So the third one was, no
one suffered any harm, Mrs. Leenstra did not follow
the advice nor did she lay the complaint, which is
astonishing, the first time someone is charged and the person who lays the complaint doesn’t
suffer harm and isn’t present And so she very kindly
wrote to the newspapers. She’d never and I’ve apologized
in Afrikaans, but this means she didn’t give a damn,
if you might excuse me (laughter) She says the Noakes case,
I don’t give a damn. That was her and her son who
was not put on the Banting diet and he looks okay but probably would look a bit better
if he’d been weaned on. (laughter). And in the end, we proved
that the complaint was laid as part of a collusion between
ADSA and the health professional council with a purpose to
silence me, that is denying me my constitutional right of
freedom of speech because before I’d even sent the
tweet, the head of ADSA was talking to the health professional council to try to shut me up,
so we discovered these, this was an incriminating email. This was the lady who led the
charge, she’s President of the Association for
Dietetics in South Africa and she writes to this lady
who serves on the health professional council as a
representative for nutrition and dietetics in South Africa. This is before I’ve tweeted and she says, “Tim Noakes
impact on the dietetics profession, here are other
examples of what other people are writing about dieticians
to the negative attention we’re getting from Tim
Noakes”, there was no negative attention, I was just,
wrote a book that’s all. The article below tax dietician
but it’s written by someone else and it was a very stinging
article which had made her very unhappy and etcetera etcetera. And it goes on before
the trial even happens. So the trial begins, sorry, I
think the battery is running out here, I think the battery’s died. There we go, okay. So this is now a year
before the trial starts, a year before the trial
starts, she writes, “We’ve had a meeting with the
senior legal person at the HPCSA and he says we’ve
got a plan for Dr Noakes.” This is a year before the trial begins, so that was the collusion and then, so then she writes back a
few days later, oh sorry, a few hours later. I think the battery is really
struggling, there we go. “And thank you for your email,
this is now the fourth before the trial begins, a year
before the trial begins, I just feel that the process
takes very long and the damage gets worse and worse, dieticians
contact me daily, I feel that I don’t have support from
the HBCSA, I’m glad it’s been discussed, can you possibly
give me an indication of what the timelines are when we
can expect action taken.” Thanks so much. So that was it, so it was a it
was a setup which had nothing to do with the tweet, it had,
the fact that the dietetics, the dietitians were unhappy
with what was happening. So in the end the trial
lasted more than four years and cost an estimated one million dollars for all parties, perhaps its great legacy will have to have brought the LCHF diet to an even larger global audience. So I must finalize by thanking
a couple of people this is my team at three guys
here just absolutely. Mike van der Nest and Rocky Ramdass, who gave their time me for
free, they gave me probably at least a million dollars free cover. (applause) And they’re two of the most eloquent, the best lawyers in South Africa. And Mike phoned me and he
said “Tim, it’s a witch hunt, I’m gonna defend you.” And Rocky, I’ll show you in
a second, so here’s Rocky and myself, and we had
four great years together and we now brothers and here
we are sitting at the trial and we were, we would present
the evidence and we’d been through it and, you know, he
literally read the transcripts I think five times he was just
a meticulous man and just I can’t thank you enough and he’s a Hindu. And this is a verdict definition
of a man of God, softer than the flower where kindness
is concerned and you could see the kindness in his face,
stronger than the thunder where principles are at
stake and that was that, he nailed those, the poor old prosecution witnesses got nailed. Now why is he called Rocky? Well there’s a guy called
Rocky Balboa, you may remember. And Rocky was one of the
anti-apartheid activists in South Africa and in the
1980s. he led a lot of the anti-apartheid activism at his university. And so we always had this
little card just to remind us, from Rocky, let me tell you
something you already know, the world ain’t all sunshine and rainbows. It’s all very, it’s a
very mean and nasty place and I don’t care how tough
you are it will beat you to your knees and keep you there
permanently if you let it you me or nobody is going
to hit as hard as life but it ain’t about how hard you
hit, it’s about how hard you can get hit and keep moving
forward, how much you can take and keep moving forward,
that’s how winning is done. And that was our relationship
and he also taught me the Hindu, much about the Hindu religion. And if I’m born again I
want to be born a Hindu. (laughter) And he told me about Ganesh
and Ganesh is the God of removing obstructions and we would pray to Ganesh everyday at the start of the trial. (laughter) To remove the obstructions for that day. And then, the famous group
came Nina Teicholz, whom you’ll know, who is right here in the front. These are my three expert
witnesses, so can we get back. Sorry something’s effing now. I’ve obviously pressed, there we go. So I had three expert witnesses
I gave nine days test.